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Abortion: time for women to know all the facts



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Published Date: 11 May 2008
AN MP with a cleft palate will this week attempt to introduce a change in the law that could lead to fewer abortions on the grounds of disability.
At present, abortions can be performed beyond the legal limit of 24 weeks if doctors agree a foetus has a "serious handicap", which can include conditions such as cleft palate.

The law does not state what kind of advice a woman should get before m
aking a decision on her unborn child's future.

Nick Palmer, MP for Broxtowe, wants to change this to ensure that women considering abortions because of foetal disabilities are provided with the most detailed and up-to-date scientific, medical and other evidence about any condition and its prognosis.

"I want to add a rider to the current law that ensures that issues such as life expectancy and quality of life are properly looked at and that any woman in this position should also be offered counselling," said Palmer. "I don't want to be telling women what to do but I think it's a good principle that before taking this kind of decision, they should know the full facts."

When Palmer, 58, was born with a cleft palate, his parents were warned that he might never learn to speak and would need intensive speech therapy. He was operated on by Sir Archie Macindoe, who rebuilt the disfigured faces of pilots injured in the Second World War.

"He told my parents that I'd be OK so long as I didn't have a profession that involved much speaking – and as an MP I don't stop talking so they're obviously quite chuffed at the way things turned out."

Palmer, who is a parliamentary aide to energy minister Malcolm Wicks, said: "Having a cleft palate has never been a big deal for me but I can see that there's a tendency for people to see physical perfection as important.

"There's also a 'poor little thing' attitude where people are concerned that a child's potential is going to be ruined because of some minor physical defect.

"If the law says we should not have abortions after 24 weeks because the foetus is viable then it does not seem right that we allow abortions up to 40 weeks unless the full facts are known."

Palmer plans to table an amendment to the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill, which gets its second reading tomorrow. It is the first time in almost 20 years that MPs have had an opportunity to change the abortion and fertility laws.

More than 100 abortions a year are carried out late because doctors have detected "physical or mental abnormalities" in the foetus which would cause it to be born "seriously handicapped". What constitutes a "severe abnormality" is not fully defined in law and doctors can apply a degree of discretion when taking a mother's wishes into consideration.

In 2003, a Church of England curate with a cleft palate, Joanna Jepson, failed to get the police to prosecute two doctors who performed an abortion on a baby with a cleft palate at 28 weeks. The abortion was deemed to be legal.

Palmer said at the time: "I feel a sense of lost potential that babies who are fit and healthy are aborted at a late stage in pregnancy just because they have a flaw in their appearance. A cleft palate is a difficulty that can be overcome, not a tragedy that must be averted at all costs."

Disability is not the only abortion battleground. When the key votes on the embryo bill come at the end of the month, anti-abortion campaigners claim they can secure a reduction in the legal time limit to around 18 weeks. Anti-abortion MPs are tabling a series of amendments reducing the limit to between 12 and 20 weeks.

MP Jim Dobbin, chairman of the all-party anti-abortion group, said: "A realistic compromise may be around 18 weeks. Both MPs and the public recognise that medical advances mean that now is the right time to have a review of the abortion time limit."

MP Brian Iddon, a member of the Commons science and technology committee, insisted that public opinion was firmly in favour of the existing time limit of 24 weeks. David Cameron, the Conservative leader, has said he will not vote to change the rules on late abortions but he will vote to reduce the abortion limit for healthy babies to 20 weeks.

The issue is a difficult one for Cameron, because his son Ivan was born with a severe form of cerebral palsy and epilepsy and needs 24-hour care.

Gordon Brown, whose youngest son Fraser has cystic fibrosis, has previously voted to liberalise the abortion laws.

He has said more recently that he will be "guided by the science" when it comes to changing the law.

Repeat operations at record levels as women find new form of contraception

Nicholas Christian


THE number of repeat abortions being carried out in the UK has now reached record levels amid fears that some women are using the controversial method as a form of contraception.

New figures reveal that in 2006 almost 60,000 were carried out on women who had previously had a termination – a rise of 5% over two years.

In some cases, women were having a sixth abortion.

The figures, which emerged at Westminster, showed that almost a third of all abortions were carried out on women who had previously terminated an earlier pregnancy.

They came as MPs prepared to table amendments to the Human Fertilisation and Embryo Bill, designed to reduce the time limit for abortions from 24 weeks to 20.

Philip Hollobone, Conservative MP for Kettering, said the rising number of repeat abortions was "truly appalling".

Hollobone, who supports the call for a 20-week upper limit, said: "There has never been more help available to prevent unwanted pregnancies, but clearly increasing numbers of women are not getting the message.

"Most people would be surprised to know that one third of all abortions are repeat and shocked to know that the number is actually going up."

He added that lowering the upper limit would reduce repeat abortions and the overall number of terminations.

However, pregnancy advisers said there may often be complex reasons for repeat abortions.

Ann Furedi, from the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, said most women took impending motherhood very seriously. But "for some women faced with an unintended pregnancy, that will mean having an abortion".

She pointed out that 68% of women undergoing a termination in 2006, the latest date for which official figures are available, were doing it for the first time.

There were 59,687 repeat abortions in 2006, up from 58,068 in 2005 and 56,245 in 2004. In 1996, 28% of those undergoing terminations had previously had one or more abortions, but by 2006 that had climbed to 32%.

Rates varied depending on age. Almost a quarter of women aged under 25 having an abortion were undergoing a repeat procedure. Rates also varied across the country, with 35% of women under 25 in some parts of London having repeat procedures.

Campaigners for a 20-week limit believe that, at 200,000 a year, Britain is performing too many terminations.



The full article contains 1214 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 10 May 2008 7:59 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Abortion
 
1

Loki, Death Angel,

The Dark Side 11/05/2008 01:01:52
Psalm 139:13-16

Makes me feel all warm and cosy inside!
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 11/05/2008 01:36:06

Loki #1,

Lets start this conversation from the beginning!

Why do you call yourself "Death Angel",?

Secondly lets NOT hide your chosen Psalm, this is Sunday after-all, and this Paper Calling themselves,..

"Scotland on Sunday" must have a reason for it! after-all we don't get, 'Scotland on Wednesday'!

Whats wrong in showing 'Bible Quotes',?

For this reason, here is your chosen Psalm,...

**13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.**


3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 11/05/2008 01:41:44
Now I will gather my thoughts on this issue, before I,..

"Rant On", as some would say, but you Loki have said,..

'Volumes'!

Hence my question to you!
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 11/05/2008 02:22:34
OK! Lets next get started on some more Quotes, but this time from, 'Nick Palmer, MP for Broxtowe"..

" but I can see that there's a tendency for people to see physical perfection as important"

Yes I see this to, like purchasing a new car or house!

'How Sad and Tragic'!

"There's also a 'poor little thing' attitude where people are concerned that a child's potential is going to be ruined because of some minor physical defect"

How cruel for people thinking this!, instead of bringing up a child
to their full potential, 'to which' can be unexpected and not realised!


""I feel a sense of lost potential that babies who are fit and healthy are aborted at a late stage in pregnancy just because they have a flaw in their appearance. A cleft palate is a difficulty that can be overcome, not a tragedy that must be averted at all costs."

Well that says it ALL!

Lets put it another way, why don't we!,?

Scenario,..(If this issue is not addressed)

Potential Mummy feels her, forthcoming 'Baby' moving about inside her, now for the last, about 7/8weeks, she has got used to 'Baby in her Womb'.

Potential Mummy's next scan,...

Doctor;,.. "Your Baby has only 4fingers on one Hand"

Potential Mother; "Is this going to be a problem Doctor,?"

Doctor;,.. It will be if you child is, 'left-handed'."

Potential Mother Now, Confused and not thinking rationally!...,

"Abort my once was, Wanted, Loved 'Baby-to-be'."

And all because of a "Finger" not being there!

Who has the 'Right' to make a decision like This,?

Who has the 'Right' to choose who,..'Lives and is Terminated'.?
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 11/05/2008 02:29:58
Before I go, just a thought!

What happened to the, "Panda" topic in this Paper,?

I bet Edinburgh Zoo, wont be making decisions on what potential "Cubs" live and die, because of the,..

'Lack of a Black Eye'!
6

W Smith,

Middle East 11/05/2008 04:18:31
#5 Charles
Nice one.

In Scotland 'dawn raids' are used against gamekeepers who poisoned birds of prey usually followed up with some useless comments from the the uselees bobby who calls himself 'Wildlife Officer'.

In his defence, the gamekeeper should remind the court that his wife has never had an abortion and he's never asked her to have one.
7

JT,

11/05/2008 10:07:37
Why is it that another man wants to change abortion laws again? Shouldnt this be about choice for the woman mainly, after all she is the one that would be carrying and caring for the child, no matter what the "perfect" father would say.
8

Bobbiedazzler,

Inverness 11/05/2008 10:13:02
I have always loved that Psalm.
Even for those who have no religious convictions there is no excuse for using abortion as a form of birth control. If you don't want children - full-stop - have a hysterectomy or tubal ligation!
As for "perfection" - good looks are not the be all and end all. The "most beautiful people" I have ever known are those with physical and mental disorders, whom most people would shun - but their internal beauty shines out against all odds!
They have much love to give and get! Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder!
9

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 11/05/2008 10:16:18
7

Sexist claptrap. Imagine reducing men to merely sp*rm and money donators.

You should be ashamed.
10

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

11/05/2008 10:27:23
Since when has a 'cleft palate' been a 'severe' disability?....as far as I was aware they were routinely operated on and corrected, albeit with some scarring...but wtf that is pretty sick to abort a baby because of that....
11

fresian,

dubai 11/05/2008 13:47:46
No 10, If you want an example of why you should have abortion for having a prune face just look at Wendy Alexander
12

Karin,

Munich 11/05/2008 14:04:41
A cleft lip or palate on its own can be easily repaired, the problem is that clefts sometimes occur as a symptom of other more serious problems such as Loeys-Dietz syndrome or Trisomy 13. It's not a case of aborting a child because it doesn't look perfect and it's insulting to women to present this issue so simplistically.
13

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 11/05/2008 16:48:24
I agree with Horrible Cankers and this selective "abortioning" is rather ruthless and inhumane and perhaps irreligious to those who believe in the sanctity of life at the very moment of conception.

This smacks of vile "human engineering" and we can't always have perfectly formed little babies.

It is probably the men who are making most of the decisions to "abortionise"- the doctors, the gynaecologists, the husbands, the boyfriends, the psychologists, etc.
14

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 11/05/2008 17:09:17

Hi Tim @#13,

Hows your weekend been going, weather in Edinburgh, is quite warm, its curious though, Our "Crankers" (@10) was only saying the other day,

"You better wear a Cauldron on yer Heed!" re: DYW on the IVF treatment, and I have to inject her medication into her everyday! :-((

Now its all taking it toll!, the mood swings! :-((

There were we in a store called Matalan and there I saw this,..'Pink Cauldron',

Kwowing 'Pink' is her favourite colour , I procceded to place the Cauldron on me 'Heed' right in the middle of the store!

DYW,..Was Mortified! :-D ,,only to make her 'Temper Worse'

Well this is a 'True Story' from the other side! from a couple that, 'Want-a-Baby' very much!

And a "BABY",...
To which WILL be, WANTED, LOVED, AND CARED FOR, FROM CONCEPTION TO BIRTH AND BEYOND, 'NO MATTER' THE CIRCUMSTANCES!

And 'Daddy' Being,,'Young at Heart' WILL Make sure of that! :-))
15

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 11/05/2008 22:15:53
BTW, sorry about all the, 'spelling errors' above, I was being 'Wooed' by the DYW at the time to join her for, 'siesta time' and was Soo pressurised by this, I forgot to do a 'spell check'

See what us 'Men' have to go through,? :-((

"Dave from Barra" @~9" 'YES' you are correct!

16

Lillig,

11/05/2008 22:34:07
If it weren't so serious, I would say how absurd.

Who amongst us is perfect?

We live in a throw-away society. Don't fix the fridge, get a new one. Fed up with the one year old couch, get a new one, you deserve it.

Oh my God, the baby might only have three fingers. How can we cope with the embarrassment and humiliation of a less-than-perfect child, how will he/she cope with same - let's murder this one and try again.

I am a woman. I believe that a woman has rights, like any human being. But I don't agree with this selective genocide.

There may be some debate when we talk about extremely severe disability that means no quality of life, no independent life - but the loss of a finger, or the fact that your offspring may not be the brain of Britain - or may have minor health problems?

Do I need to say more?
17

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

11/05/2008 22:52:41
14..Charles...it wisnae a bliddy 'cauldron' it wis a 'collander' bit o' a difference man...ye'd see nowt wae a 'cauldron' oan yer heed...and thats my hat...no, a 'collander...you know..that you rinse lettuce in!!!..the old fashioned metal type to ward off hormonal attacks...
18

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 11/05/2008 23:09:34
'Crankers' it a METAL PINK COLANDER! (BTW)

That's another mistake made in that post I made, 'sorry'

See the 'pressure' I was under at that time,? :-(
___________

Lillig @~16,

I loved your comment and it is Soo refreshing to get women's viewpoints on here.


19

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 11/05/2008 23:11:44
It must be me on the hormones! :))

re; 18 mistake again, should read,

'Crankers' it 'WAS' a METAL PINK COLANDER! (BTW)
20

carrottop,

12/05/2008 08:00:53
Charles Linskaill
This thread might have been yesterday but you are just as boring today, a serious subject belittled by your rants.
I presume the dark room you live in is like a womb to you and suggest you are enticed out into the world.
21

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 12/05/2008 11:59:07
carrottop

You do Charles Linskaill an injustice, you fool.

He is well-liked in these forums and has a unique perspective on things.

It is grumpy, nihilistic numpties like YOU who lower the tone of these forums.

GO AWAY AND DON'T COME BACK, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
22

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 12/05/2008 23:16:32
Thankyou Tim.
23

Charles Linskaill,

Test mobile opera 13/05/2008 00:10:18
.

 

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